Friday, August 29, 2003
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<p>I thought the <a href="http://www.flatlandmedia.com/flatlander/commentview.aspx/9a8fa76f-cfbe-4869-a573-8edbc28d22a1">Ten Commandments discussion</a> was good enough to bring it back up top for a few more thoughts I've had about it in the past couple days. I've been trying to think about from a very pragmatic approach that doesn't concern interpretation, or founders' intentions, or my Christian ideals. It seems that all parties concerned would agree at least one thing: the Constitution is a document that is supposed to protect our freedom. That's my big assumption here. If you disagree, then read no further as my thoughts will be rubbish. So, with this in mind, I have had a hard time understanding the mindset of the person that walks into the rotunda of an Alabama courthouse, sees a monument portraying the Ten Commandments, and then realizes that because of this, they are not free enough. I mean, who sees this and thinks, my rights are being blatently raped by the government! Because I don't understand this approach, I'm forced to suppose that the person who fights the presentation of this monument must have an agenda other than their own personal freedom, or the freedom of other citizens, even though they claim to be providing more freedom to us by removing the monument. So, what could that agenda be? It seems to me that what these people want is not freedom of religion, which is what the Constitution talks about, but freedom from religion. But I figured that it's more than just freedom from religion that they want, because I think we all know that we can be as free from religion as we want to be in this country. Instead, I think these people are seeking the ultimate freedom, the freedom from conscience. The morality inherent in God-fearing religions must be a reminder to them that however free they think they are, they still seem to be subject to someone or something. They still seem to feel guilty about something, even though they think that they have only to answer to themselves. </p> <p>OK, so I've made some generalizations here, but these thoughts have encouraged me to examine my own ideas about and desire for freedom. I, too, like to think of myself as autonomous, but fortunately when I'm forced to confront the fact that I'm not, I don't have to try to hide from my guilt. I know to whom I answer, personally, and that grants me a freedom that even the freedom of conscience could never bring. I think I'm about to make myself cry, so I'm going to stop there.</p>
Friday, August 29, 2003 3:47:14 AM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)  #    Disclaimer  |  Comments [4]  |  Related posts:
Jeff, Read This
Initial Debate Response
1st Pres Debate
O'Reilly vs. Moore
More Baylor In The News
It's America's Fault

Friday, August 29, 2003 6:34:27 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
I agree with you about the protecting freedom, I just disagree about the approach of the discussion that the people have no morals and they feel guilty about it. And I understand that you also made that comment as well. I believe it has an underlying ethics theme. What kind of country are we ethically? I believe we are, as a nation, narcissistic. Right? We are all better than any other country, better football team, better school, etc, etc. As a narcissistic country, people think that nothing should be held higher than the constitution, hence taking down the 10 commandments. I believe that most people have an inherent moral theory of consequentialism, that the law provides consequences to our actions (going somewhere else with this) and this is why someone won't go out and kill someone else, not that it is inherently wrong. Everyone can always justify an action even if it wrong. Lie about having jews in the attic to a Nazi guard? Isn't that wrong to lie? Or to kill the Nazi to protect an innocent life? There are no absolutes, hence no one wants to have the 10 commandments.

This is not what I believe, just what I see.
seth
Tuesday, September 02, 2003 8:15:07 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
I haven't had much time to chew on this new stuff. So I'm sure I'll be adding about 16 new comments. First of all let it out Pete. Remember that time I started crying in front of you in my apartment? Man, talk about a humbling experience. Talk about being at the bottom of the barrel. Yikes. Talk about crying your eyes out. I haven't cried since. My ducts are dry, like a desert. Mmmmmm dessert.
I have to agree somewhat here about the person that would fight to take the monument down. I think there's some ignorance going on. Like the ignorance that allows a person to automatically believe with firm conviction that the monument is not allowed. I take an example from my Mom's life. Last year, or was it two years ago? Anywho, my Mom works on a public school campus in a program called Healthy Start. The program finds food, clothing, and necessities for poor families in the school district. Kids aren't allowed in the office. My Mom had a mouse pad that had a Bible verse on it. I think it was one of those Thomas Kinkade pictures. Some kind of nature scene with a house of some kind and a Bible verse. ...Funny, I was about to write "non-offensive Bible verse" but I realized that some people will say that EVERY verse is offensive to them (which I would seriously question their honesty in such a statement). My Mom's supervisor told her she had to remove the mouse pad because it was a violation of 'church and state.' If you don't know my Mom she is pretty dadgum fiesty and stubborn. I'm not sure why I didn't get any of that ....what?! Anyhow, she said she didn't think it was and they'd talk to the principal or the superintendent, I can't remember which. That administrator told them both that he'd have to consult with the school's attorney. In the meantime my Mom got in contact with a non-profit group in Arizona that specifically handles cases concerning violations of Christians' rights. The group gave my Mom lots of applicable case law, which she forwarded on to the school's attorney before he had a chance to issue the school's opinion. This whole incident took place over several months. The final result was that the mouse pad was ok. I had a point at the beginning of this....ah, yes. That the supervisor didn't know what she was talking about, she was completely ignorant of the law. Its that old proverb or piece of wisdom that says something about a little knowledge in the hand of fools is dangerous. But if my Mom hadn't stood up for herself her rights would have been steamrolled. She would be less-free. We live in the free-est state in the world, we need to exercise our freedoms to keep them.
My other point is this, and I feel like I'm stepping out of the discussion boundaries here, sorry: That people what to be free from God. They believe the Constitution is their best weapon. I really believe that people walk into the courthouse look at the monument and think, "Get that out of my face! I don't want to be confronted with Him. I don't want to think about Him, have that discussion, or wrestle with my thoughts and beliefs." I think there's some real anger there.
After reading this over I think I just agreed with both of you and didn't make any new points.
Jeff
Wednesday, September 03, 2003 7:33:40 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
This week's TIME had a blurb about this issue. I'll relay the facts: The monument was moved to a back room of the courthouse. Court challenges have been made against 10 Commandments displays on public lands or in government buildings in at least 14 states. Texas and Pennsylvania courts have ruled that the monuments stay. Tennessee, Kentucky, and Wisconsin courts have ordered the monuments be removed. In Penn., the monument had been outside the courthouse since 1920. The court ruled it had historical significance. In Washington a suit has been filed against Everett city because a monument is outside the police station. Its been there for 43 years. The city's argument is that its historical. In Ohio, four 800 lb. monuments have been removed from the front of four separate schools.
Jeff
Thursday, September 04, 2003 6:57:02 PM (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Ohio sucks ass
seth
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